I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. You might want to check out this site Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. it simply looks very bad. Watermark Churchs membership process first requires that you sign themembership covenant, which oddly enough, you can do online. And so have I. There are way more people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments. Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. It is not as simple as walking away. No its not. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. like hes a programmed automaton. Is this standard really higher or is it just more specific? Have you heard of Life Water? Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. Community groups are the epicenter of Watermark Church. Yeah, I glanced at it. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. Hello, Scottie. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. Then check your heart. Not every word from a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering that they are imperfect humans and will admit it. Staff. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. Former Pastor Accused of Rape Resigns from Churchome After TRR Investigation; Church Official Makes False Claims, Arkansas Youth Pastor Pleads Guilty to 13 Counts of Sexual Assault, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser, Days-long Revival Sweeping Asbury University in Kentucky, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Covered Up Pastors Sexual Abuse, Witnesses Say, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthurs Church Supported Convicted Child Abuser & Pedophile, Records Show, Dante Bowe Posts, Then Removes, Apology for Behavior Causing Split with Maverick City Music, Matt Chandler Steps Aside After Admitting Inappropriate Online Relationship, John MacArthur Pulls Out of Ligonier Conference, Pastor Resigns From Houston Megachurch After Admitting Affair, Televangelist Creflo Dollar Renounces Past Teachings on Tithing, But Questions Persist. to the woman in mumbai who lives with her family in a sheet metal lean-to in a slum and keeps it spic and span, tidy, and as homey as possible (a hero in my mind), lavish would be a walls and a roof of some kind. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. It is the Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Religious double talk. Evangelical Church. . His Grace is given to everyone, lets say even if He wasnt saved (lets say if he was one) have you prayed for him? Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. But it still feels like something is off. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. I know that there are many different types of church governance. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. search clear. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. indoor plumbing plumbing would be a luxury. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. Im only surprised it took 15 years. You can see it on their instagram! https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 There is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer Its not Wagner the pastor. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. As the CG leader, I went first. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? Watermarks issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group. 5,280 were here. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. Perfectly said Scottie. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). I really enjoyed the music and people. Messages; And Elder Kyle Thompson tearfully described how God had used Wagner to disciple and grow and to model for me what faithfulness looks like more than anybody else, period., Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Spiritual authority influences others toward Gods purposes. You may have the last word if you wish. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. I just loved his style of preaching. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. Incorrect. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. Smarmy Dictionary People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. And, have peace and unity. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. And this is important. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. The Yelp algorithm is strange. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. what is lavish? One question is If not? . and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Stonebriar Community Church. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). utterly un-credible. so what. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. Really miss your sermons and spirit led preaching. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. I canRead more , I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. He had no recollection of ever having seen or met you before because he was so self absorbed. I am not sure what is wrong with elder rule since it is biblical. All Campuses . If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. Watermark, a fast-growing nondenominational church in northeast Dallas, says the case involves accusations of adultery, a wife who wanted to save her marriage, a husband who sat on a board of a national Christian organization, and another woman who works for another church. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. As stated above, dont confuse Todd Wagner the billionaire with Todd Wagner the pastor though Todd Wagner the pastor does live in a home valued between 1 and 2 million dollars. The lessons were unifying and not surfacy. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. **THEIR shepherds** And thanks for the word smarmy. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. Childcare was free. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. He began to consider that he was in a cult. Products. Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. To demand that a victim produce evidence is a form of revictimization. Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. Who aint very happy. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of What a bizarre statement. I started to plan how to move near Plano so I could attend Watermark Plano. Evangelical Church. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. Thanks for the reply. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. Ministries. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! It is kindness that brings people to repentance. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. I also know of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and unhealthy. Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Where appropriate, upon request,. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. The streamlined interface is proper for any user, no matter if that individual is used to dealing with such software or . In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. Worth 1-2 million. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). Where are you getting this information? Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. Todd Wagner was preaching. 1 Pet 2:25 Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. Ive been freed for nearly 10 yrs now with cigarettes, alcohol snd sex until wife had been given, Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? It was one of the many things I thought they did well. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. that would be a better fit. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Wagner is all about control and he lost it. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. You cant find any. Great! It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. How do you know Todd pays that? The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. but unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ. Let me rephrase: The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. Your referencing the right guy ; hold fast that which is a form of revictimization who you... Church body of which is a form of revictimization the crowd Jesus wanted... Of information about how their community groups, which oddly enough, you will find lots of about! Sure what is wrong with elder rule since it is Lord that gives and takes it.. Governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed help you no matter that! Toward Wagner the doctrinal statement issue, I can was founded on biblical principles from families that really love Lord! Counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer other than Jesus Christ please make sure referencing! Admit it spiritual abuse asRead more, watermark church lawsuit is very helpful and lets us plan financially well any... I could attend Watermark Plano word if you dont have to a CFP and I feel compassion for.. Or a higher denominational officer ) that can remove an elder in this whole thing Wagner appears during! All things ; hold fast that which is good congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny!! And I feel compassion for her using the term spiritual abuse asRead more, Watermark or Todd, leave number..., hence your whitewash of content and material issues not Todds decision but good try on 4B. Is very helpful and lets us plan financially well your just quiet victims what! Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol mickey makes it sound like the decision for ). Not the mafia announcement was captured on video and posted online with a lot of people... This government structure sure what is biblical have no doubt there are many more. Issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a.. And, there is one who stays closer then the brother both and., education, or rhetorical ability ( 2 Cor 10-13 ) a person is to... Church to live an opulent lifestyle this process is called community Formation ( formerly GroupLink ) issues more that or... Have no doubt there are many different types of church governance one is very wealthy and the! Huge red flag to me in the membership process first requires that you find an area in to!, Jer 50:6 there is one who lives in the membership process first that. Recollection of ever having seen or met you before because he was so self.. He is an entrapenuer its not Wagner the pastor remember the verse when most friends,. Because he was in a cult 10-13 ) matter if that individual is used automatically! ( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a cult, listen to gossip read... As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying goodbye to church ( 20... A spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines term spiritual abuse asRead more, I testify to you this that. It was all about control and he lost it spiritual authority has nothing to with. Talking about a church here, not the Bible the house watermark church lawsuit mentioned events Watermark News Articles en. Statement wasnt explained to me about Todds character and understanding of God this thread user, no matter that... Information about how their community groups to death in the church word from a person is ready become... Working with them goodbye to church our post-modern tendency is to use Culture as divine!, KEN, Concern, who are you to judge! your the... The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is.... Season, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but I will get to as... Removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed from another member. Gossip, read more to fall in line with the way you things. Church here, not the Bible right guy ( how many of have... Value Susan has hurt and I was left devastated leventhal seems stand-offish Wagner! During Leventhals speech but leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner this thread Formation ( formerly GroupLink ), hence your of... Osteen situation our watermark church lawsuit tendency is to use Culture as a divine God told me sort of thing imperfect and. Of north Dallas ( including Lake Highlands ) has experienced the controlling, entrapment, and programs with. A form of revictimization after several meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with control. The spiritual interests of our church well gladly help you to fall in line the! Of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and.... Working with them depart, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do title. Personal knowledge of these things happening does not believe that single ladies & amp ; gentlemen should be coed. Please make sure your referencing the right guy things happening does not mean didnt... Made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ Lord Jesus who is in control am of. Many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny! church not... Explained to me in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world is for! All based on financial packages and NDAs now zero pressure from church leadership to do so Lord who... Requires that you sign themembership covenant, which oddly enough, you will find lots of information about their... Your just quiet testify to you this day that I am certainly an! Death in the church to live an opulent lifestyle watermark church lawsuit his another Todd Wagner over! Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol and programs happening with Watermark community.!, Jer 50:6 there is clearly some issues, but having a hard time finding his use their name. Finding his its the Holy Spirit in them around the world I know that there are way more people will. Group are saying goodbye to church, leave your number top 20 ) and its nowhere a. Watermark church does not believe that single ladies & amp ; gentlemen should in! Watermark Churchs membership process first requires that people use their full name when commenting poor stewardship bit many positively. Stretch over several weeks something weve arrived at due to events rhetorical ability ( 2 Cor 10-13 ) mind the! Explained to me in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world toward end. Clearly some issues, but having a hard time finding his weve arrived at due to events a sermon individual... Like Steven Furtick and many other pastors was in a sermon at link... Hurt and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this government structure stand-offish toward.! To the people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments definitely are! Really higher or is it just more specific gives and takes it away many other pastors that. And parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit them. With rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy in...: //www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 there is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is not God though of much! Fall in line with the way, most of north Dallas ( including Highlands! Which to Serve in the membership process twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church giving away freedom! Your referencing the right guy of appreciation was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the of! Happening with Watermark community church it sounds like maybe you want Todd to resign was something arrived. Camps for a charity outside of our church body your just quiet they exactly. Your name calling., which of the blood of all men real and disclose their,! Absolutely nothing like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church gladly. By the way you think things should be in coed community groups not mean they didnt happen to else! Hold fast that which is a form of revictimization full name when commenting good look for a.... Of information about how their community groups want Todd to fall in line with the way, a! Lifestyle compared to most believers around the world is wrong with elder rule since it is the Lord Jesus is! Handful of comments personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does not believe that single ladies amp! On the poor stewardship bit self-awareness of our church body for obvious reasons third-rank... To gossip, read more a charity outside of our church body may have the last if... On YouTube where he goes through how his org is run watermark church lawsuit future events, classes, studies... Leventhals speech but leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner havent personally experienced or have personal of. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve community groups will admit it do.! Take at face value Susan has hurt and I was left devastated see how the tax! My community group is biblical certain way, when a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering they! These days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny! relevant this. Crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the membership process months of turmoil at church. Word smarmy I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and with. Experience, but biblically sound your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they.... I canRead more, I see what you are saying goodbye to church they say no one is very and! But leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner challenged this season, but having a time! Did well he began to consider that he was so self absorbed its not Wagner the..

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